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Bending ebony bindings
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Author:  Doc [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Bending ebony bindings
It has been a few years since I've last bent any, and recall ending up with more pieces than I started with in my bender (snap/crack). I'm planning on bending another set and wondered if anyone would care to share their experiences so hopefully I'll achieve greater success. These have purfling attached with Titebond III, btw.

Much appreciated!
Author:  kencierp [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
No more than .070" thick --- bend the waist curve on a pipe --- lots of heat -- spritz with water, the steam helps. Has worked for me
Author:  Michael.N. [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I bend them at anywhere between 1.8 (.070) and 2 mm max, on a hot pipe. Apart from the above advice: take it easy, let the steam and heat do it's job. If you use a pipe hold the bindings to it's waist shape after you have removed it from the hot pipe, for a minute or so. Ebony retains heat longer and they tend to straighten out more than other types of binding. Holding them under tension until they cool helps to fix the shape.
If you can't get the desired tight bend and the wood is becoming too brittle, leave it for a day. Allow it to rehydrate, it will be easier to bend the next day.
The good news is that it's just a matter of practice/feel. I broke plenty when I started using Ebony. I can't recall the last time I broke one and I use Ebony bindings a lot, probably 8 out of 10 instruments.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Treat with supersoft II then hand bend on a real hot bender, spritz with water and bend. It takes a bit more time to get to the bending temperature than most woods. I also preflex the strips by hand as it seems they are more flexable in one direction than the other so that will be the direction of the waist bend. Some strips are more flexable than others so they are the cutaway strips. I end up gluing cracks more often than I would like to admit but this is not a problem in the final binding.

I also use some hobby shop brass strips on each side of the bend and always only bend one strip at a time.

I love the look but have a hate relationship with the bending process.

Fred
Author:  Doc [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Thanks gentlemen, nice to know it wasn't just my imagination. I'll incorporate you're suggestions and see if I can have better luck this time. Fred, I'd thought about the Super Soft II approach, but wondered if that might cause the purfling to begin to pull apart. Any thoughts?

Thanks again!
Author:  Clinchriver [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I used my Bluescreek bender, minimal moisture, broke one out of 13. Seems like I was finished bending before the temp hit 250 degrees
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I haven't had any problems either but I've only bound two guitars in ebony so far. I use a Fox-style bender. I think using the SuperSoft is a good idea though. The nice think is that if you get a crack or break, the fix is invisible.
Author:  uvh sam [ Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I have found that grain orientation really makes a difference. Quarter sawn seems to bend the best. The hard part is being able to tell!
Author:  dofthesea [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I bend ebony at at about 300 and take my time.... for about 3-4 minutes bends like butter with a blanket on a bending form. I will say i prefer a full form verses the 3/4" ply on each side with bars spanning the 6".
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
The first time I bent ebony binding I was concerned that this was not going to be easy.... But it was!

Thinner is better as Ken said and I tape 4 or more together taping them at four locations. I am much more liberal with the misted water with ebony than I am when bending say sides and I also wrap in craft paper wanting to have the paper pretty moist too. Steam is your friend....

In the Fox bender they go, normal side bending times, technique and Bob's your uncle.

I'm also careful to use naphtha on the bent bindings where the tape was to avoid any bonding issues later. Be sure if using a bending machine to break the inner edge of the respective bindings prior to bending - it's easier to do it then. If you don't understand this statement lots of us break the inner edge with a couple quick scrapes so that the bindings snug up better in the binding channels.

And be sure to make two rights and two lefts.....

The first time I used jet black ebony for bindings on the Serge guitar I also learned that under gloss finish ebony bindings look just like plastic.... :? Don't get me wrong it's a good look just not something that jumps out at others as being real wood bindings.
Author:  kencierp [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Quote:
I also learned that under gloss finish ebony bindings look just like plastic..


Sad but true --
Author:  Imbler [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
kencierp wrote:
Quote:
I also learned that under gloss finish ebony bindings look just like plastic..


Sad but true --

Yes, my first guitar was a nice Juan Pimenteau purchased used by me with no history. A great guitar I still have today 40 years later, but I remember periodically looking at it wondering why he would have used plastic binding! Spoiled the look of ebony for me, and I would never use it although I understand the appeal to those less biassed than myself!
Mike
Author:  James Orr [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Clinchriver wrote:
I used my Bluescreek bender, minimal moisture, broke one out of 13. Seems like I was finished bending before the temp hit 250 degrees


+1. I haven't had too many issues. I finish my bend in that general area, but let the blanket come up to 300 or so and let them hang there for 15-30 minutes before shutting it down and letting them cool.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I also won't use ebony bindings unless I have to. As others have said it looks just like plastic under finish.
When I have to use it I pick the most streaky pieces I have, that gives it some chance to look like wood under finish.
I've had no issues in fox bender at 2mm with it and when bending by hand I back up the bend area with a .012 feeler gauge.
Author:  Doc [ Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Thanks everyone for your input--it has been most helpful. I'll try to post my progress as a rank amateur, but give you an idea what I'm facing. This particular build is of a black limba b/s set that I believe I picked up from "the Zootman" a while back so it has some flavor to it. I thought some darker rosewood bindings might complement it, but after gluing them on I'm just not pleased with the look at all. My plan is to route them off and use the ebony instead to give the nice contrast. I understand the plastic look, but think this is the best match and those who know me understand I don't do plastic unless I absolutely must. I may try one strip in the Fox-style bender and see how it goes--if OK, then tape three others together and pray while heat and pressure applied. I already glued purflings on, 2 left and 2 right (thanks for the reminder, Hesh), but still wondering if applying Super Soft II might cause the purfling to delaminate. Hoping to try the process by this weekend so any more thoughts before then are welcome.

Howard
Author:  Goat Rock Ukulele [ Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I have run into pieces of ebony that won't bend the tight bends of a ukulele. A wise man told me to get another board, problem solved.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Is black plastic an option? Seems like you can't tell the difference under finish anyways.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Jim Watts wrote:
I also won't use ebony bindings unless I have to. As others have said it looks just like plastic under finish.
When I have to use it I pick the most streaky pieces I have, that gives it some chance to look like wood under finish.
I've had no issues in fox bender at 2mm with it and when bending by hand I back up the bend area with a .012 feeler gauge.


I go for streaky too. Some suppliers are only too happy to sell you their streaky ebony.

Pat
Author:  Doc [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
As promised, here's the update. Given I had snapped so many ebony bindings in the past I wanted to stack everything in my favor this time. I had hoped to spray them 24 hr in advance with Super Soft II, but with the purfling already attached I was hesitant. I thought they might delaminate, so I took a small piece of purfling and sprayed it. No delamination, but some discoloration of the black seeping into the white strips.

I took one binding and sprayed distilled water on it pretty well (it was wet, not just misted), wrapped it in craft paper and put it in the bender. After turning the heat on I waited until it reached 290 degrees before bending at the waist (dread). I completed that in about a minute, then shaped the lower bout and finally the upper bout. I let it cook for about 5 minutes at 300-310 and let it cool. After a few hours I removed it from the bender and it was perfect (other than the paper stuck to it due to the warming of the glue).

So, I threw the other three in the bender in the same fashion and hoped they would turn out. Sure enough, worked just fine so now I have what I need!

Thanks everyone for all your input--gave me the confidence to get this done.

Doc
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Bending Dread binding is the easiest with its large waist radius, the level of difficulty increases drastically with the tighter waist OMs and Jumbos and even more so in cutaways.

I always dread the ebony binding but love the look after finishing. It was mentioned why not just use black plastic but I can tell the difference and have repaired too many instruments that the plastic has come loose so never use it.

Glad to hear of your success.

Fred
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I've done both ebony and black plastic. I agree with Fred, I can definitely tell the difference.
Author:  Doc [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I agree Fred, bending the Dread shape is easier--the previous builds with ebony had been OM's. I can only imagine the frustration with cutaways. And with you and Steve on the appearance vs. plastic.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Given that Ebony was around long before Black plastic maybe it's the plastic that looks like Ebony, rather than the other way around!
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
Michael.N. wrote:
Given that Ebony was around long before Black plastic maybe it's the plastic that looks like Ebony, rather than the other way around!

And that's how I sell it. Doesn't bother me at all that black plastic is a good imitation. I advertise my guitars as all-wood. I find thick ebony on a pipe is a nightmare, but thinned and in a bender with lots of heat, it's pretty much like other harder woods, even for an OM waist.
(Yes, the guitar in my avatar is ebony binding and pickguard).
Author:  dpetrzelka [ Thu May 14, 2015 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending ebony bindings
I just tried bending ebony for a 00 size guitar at 285 degrees F in my home made bender - wet the wood, wrapped in blank newsprint paper and sandwiched metal - bindings - blanket - metal.

It worked pretty well, though I have one area at the waist that looks like it wanted to crack/separate. On the next set I'm going to take it up to 300 degrees to see if that will help

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